mindbrain
mindbrain
Tuesday Nov 22, 2022
#24 — The Conscious Brain Evolved with David Edelman, Jay Giedd & Mark Mitton
Tuesday Nov 22, 2022
Tuesday Nov 22, 2022
The home of the late Nobel Laureate, Gerald Edelman, is the setting for this elevated discussion on human consciousness. In this episode, Bernie is joined by Gerald's son and neuroscientist David Edelman, developmental neuropsychiatrist Dr. Jay Giedd, and professional magician Mark Mitton.
What level of biology is relevant to the study of conscious processing? Is it a matter of molecules? Or cells? Or networks?
Talking Points
0:00 – The Biological Level of the Conscious Brain
6:28 – Like Evolution, Consciousness is Highly Adaptive
12:27 – Like Magic, Inductive Science is Highly Adaptive and Full of Surprises
18:05 – How Magic Plays With The Limited Capacity of the Conscious Brain
23:18 – The Hippocampus and Amygdala are Two Evolved Structures of the Brain
28:39 – Deception and Self Deception Create Mismatches Between Reality and Expectations
36:25 – The Immune System and the Brain Are Both Highly Adaptable
Links
— Website and Social Media —
Show Notes: Ep #24 Full Summary
Website: https://bernardbaars.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OnConsciousnesswithBernardBaars
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en
— David Edelman, PhD —
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-edelman-b5b16315/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/doctorocto
Elsevier: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/contributors/david-edelman-phd
— Jay Giedd, PhD —
University of California, San Diego: https://profiles.ucsd.edu/jay.giedd
Doximity: https://www.doximity.com/pub/jay-giedd-md
Brain and Behavior Foundation: https://www.bbrfoundation.org/about/people/jay-n-giedd-md-0
— Mark Mitton —
Personal Website: http://markmitton.com/index.html
Twitter: https://twitter.com/mark_mitton?lang=en
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-mitton-4204696/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markmittonmagic/?hl=en
Sunday Nov 21, 2021
#16 — ”Global Workspace Theory: Exploring Origins and Evidence - Part One”
Sunday Nov 21, 2021
Sunday Nov 21, 2021
"One of the major features of the Global Workspace hypothesis began with limited capacity, that there has to be a compensatory event in the brain happening, and the most plausible one, for various reasons, including other people's work, of course, was that there's some kind of very wide recruitment of brain resources that happens as a function of becoming conscious of something."
– Dr. Bernard Baars, originator of Global Workspace Theory and Global Workspace Dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness.
“Global Workspace Theory: Exploring Origins and Evidence - Part 1” with Ilian Daskalov & Alea Skwara
In episode 16 of the Podcast On Consciousness, psychobiologist and author Bernard Baars, and Student Interviewers Alea Skwara, a PhD candidate at UC Davis and Ilian Daskalov, a senior undergrad student at UC Irvine unpack the origins and various components of Baars’ Global Workspace Theory (GWT), a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex, and consciousness. GWT is a widely used framework for the role of conscious and unconscious events in the functioning of the brain, a set of explicit assumptions that can be tested, as many of them have been in the last twenty years. Global Workspace Dynamics (GWD) is the most current version of GWT – attempting to take into account the complexities of the living brain.
Talking Points
0:00 – Intro by Natalie Geld, Bernard Baars, Alea Skwara & Ilian Daskalov
5:58 – Is a Stream of Consciousness a Passive State?
11:59 – How is Consciousness Defined?
18:29 – Unpacking the Origins of Global Workspace Theory
28:37 – Features of Global Workspace Theory
37:45 – The Limited Capacity of Conscious Awareness
42:36 – Parallel Integrated Computing
50:28 – Widespread Integration and Broadcasting
1:00:55 – What People Get Wrong About GWT
Summary
Bernie opens the conversation with the point that consciousness has largely been perceived as a passive state. When scientists initially started recording brain activity, the collection of brain regions which were active in the absence of a given task were considered to be “the brain’s metabolic baseline.” This notion, however, has received plenty of pushback in recent years, and this baseline is now regarded as an active cognitive task.
In an effort to get everyone on the same page, Ilian asks Bernie to define consciousness for the listeners. By using a metaphorical comparison to Galileo and his thermometer, Baars indicates that our current science is only able to give us an “operational definition,” which may differ from what consciousness actually is. In addition, by reiterating one of Baars’ metaphors, Alea explains that awareness is like a shining spotlight in a theater, while the unilluminated part of the stage, which is the majority of it, is where all the unconscious processes occur.
Origins of Global Workspace Theory
Ilian asks Bernie about the origins of Global Workspace Theory, and what inspired his thought process.
Bernie shares his story on how he became interested in studying consciousness, which was initially ignited by the limitations of strictly behavioristic views imposed upon the scientific thinking of the time. Additionally, by exploring altered states of consciousness through the practice of transcendental meditation and inspired by the field of artificial intelligence, Bernie began to formulate a model to explain the nature of awareness. The key to any scientific concept is “relative evidence.” Without that we simply get lost. And the history of speculation about consciousness is mostly about people getting lost, arguing about semantic questions and frankly wasting time. What we want, in fact, is to study nature through facts. Baars has argued that “contrastive evidence” involves the most relevant set of facts, such as sleep and waking states.
The Bottleneck Paradox: Exploring the Limited Capacity of Consciousness
Diving further into the various characteristics of Global Workspace and the questions which the theory attempts to answer, Bernie and Alea examine one of its most notable features, namely Limited Capacity, or the process of being aware of only a small percentage of what is happening in one’s mind. Limited capacity appears to be a genuine feature of the brain that continues to be a paradox. In the history of science, puzzles like this are the hardest fundamental questions to solve.
Building on this topic, they also incorporate the subject of parallel integrated computing, which describes how a number of processors simultaneously tackle the same problem in order to reach the most optimal solution.
Global Access, Integration, and Some Clarifications
The discussion then moves on to the core prediction of GWT, which is “widespread integration and broadcasting.” Bernie uses the example of a chirping bird to explain that integration is the process of sound traveling to both ears at slightly different times, all the while being perceived as one.
Furthermore, Alea summarizes the broadcasting aspect of Global Workspace as the ability to “hyper focus on a narrow piece of experience.”
In the final segment of the episode, Ilian and Bernie discuss some of the common misconceptions about Global Workspace Theory. Referring to the analogy of a traffic jam’s changing epicenter, Baars explains that the Global Workspace is a dynamic hub in the brain - and not static - as commonly thought.
In Episode 17 - Part 2 of our series on GWT, Bernie, Ilian, and Alea will explore the links between cutting edge brain evidence and how that supports or updates our understanding of consciousness and the Global Workspace Theory. They will begin with Bernie’s co-authored paper from 2013 -- “Global Workspace Dynamics: Cortical “binding and propagation” enables conscious contents” -- the result of four decades of cumulative work, which is important because it pulls all the current strands together. Three recent scientific papers will be unpacked that point out a plausible way in which all our sources can converge - can come together into a single conception.
This is only a start and we hope that this conversation triggers further questions.
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.com
APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"
Bios
Alea Skwara is a PhD candidate at the University of California, Davis where she studies cognitive neuroscience. Her primary research focuses on compassion and responses to suffering. The main question that Alea is currently trying to answer is whether meditational practices can expand the range of people that a person can feel compassion for.
Ilian Daskalov is a senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine where he studies Cognitive Science. He holds an associate degree with honors from San Diego Mesa College. His research interests include sleep, psychedelics, and artificial intelligence. He is passionate about communicating science and promoting critical thinking.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks.
Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting.
He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.
Friday May 14, 2021
Friday May 14, 2021
"The idea is to help people understand how this science is relevant to their daily lives. Our brain likes novelty. It gets this sort of dopamine hit when you give it new information. Capturing attention and getting people excited about the information is really important, especially when dealing with things like public health issues, for example.”
– Dr. Heather Berlin, Neuropsychologist and Assistant Clinical Professor at Mount Sinai
Episode 15: "Communicating Science Effectively and The Notion of Free Will" with Dr. Heather Berlin *On Consciousness*
For Episode #15, our returning guest is neuropsychologist Dr. Heather Berlin, an Assistant Clinical Professor in Psychiatry at Mount Sinai School of Medicine. Dr. Berlin is a trained neuroscientist and a clinical psychologist. She is also interested in the neural basis of consciousness, dynamic unconscious processes, the use of psychedelics to treat mental disorders, and in the neural basis of creativity. We discuss her work and passions in this episode.
Talking Points
0:00 - Intro with Bernard Baars, Dr. Heather Berlin & Student Interviewer, Ilian Daskalov
1:14 - Self-regulation and impulsivity
6:59 - Communicating science effectively
10:57 - The future of AI
16:23 - The notion of free will
19:30 - Future scientific discoveries
22:33 - Advice for neuroscience students
Summary
Bernie Baars expresses his interest in the topic of human impulsivity and invites Dr. Berlin to share how her work has been shaped by studying the nature of self-regulation. Heather discusses her pursuit of trying to understand what makes us distinctly human, which led her on a journey of studying the functions of the prefrontal cortex. Additionally, the two also briefly touch on how Freud’s work has contributed to our understanding of the human mind.
Bernie then welcomes Student Interviewer Ilian Daskalov, a Cognitive Science student at University of California, Irvine into the conversation to further explore her unique work, research and creative endeavors.
Relating Science to Our Daily Lives
They begin with the question “What makes someone an effective science communicator?” Heather explains that while there are many ways to communicate science, the key to capturing your audience’s attention stems from relating science information to their daily lives. Heather says:
“First of all, find what you are good at, what medium you might be best at. You know, my husband raps about science, right? That's his medium. Then start to cultivate your medium. I think the kind of overarching aim that runs across them all is about connecting with people. I think on an emotional level, on a personal level -- because sometimes science can be abstract and objective, and that's what we want with science. It's objective. It's not amenable to our subjectivity, but at the same time that can feel very clinical. Distant.
The idea is to help people understand how this science is relevant to their daily lives. How it's meaningful and what it means to them. Even if it's just inspiring a sense of awe, like, I don't know for sure about astrophysics, maybe it doesn't have any direct impact on our daily life, but just living in this universe and the enormity of it!! It’s awe inspiring!
Our brain likes novelty. It gets this sort of dopamine hit when you give it new information. Capturing attention and getting people excited about the information is really important, especially when dealing with things like public health issues, for example.”
Conscious AI and the Notion of Free Will
Recalling a recent interview between Heather Berlin and Sophia the Robot, Ilian seeks to understand where the future development of general artificial intelligence is heading. Both Bernie and Heather express their skepticism that humanity will be able to create conscious machines. They go on to explain that while our understanding of consciousness is yet incomplete, the biological components that it consists of appear to be fundamental building blocks.
Following the topic of AI, the discussion moves on to the notion of Free Will. Heather points out that although there is no evidence for the Cartesian definition of Free Will, the unconscious processes may not be predetermined. She further highlights the fact that the lack of Free Will does not excuse inappropriate human behavior as we have evolved the capacity to have self-control, primarily due to the maturation of the prefrontal cortex.
Bernie shares his thoughts on consciousness and the sense of Free Will:
“Consciousness has been a huge taboo in the last 100 years, and so people are very often a little bit ashamed or inhibited or afraid of getting criticized when they speak freely of consciousness and Free Will. The key move in this new and confusing area is to state our questions in a testable and open-minded way. In good science, we should never impose our answers onto nature.
The way to study the sense of freedom that we all have is profoundly important -- it is very real -- and not an illusion. There are profound biological reasons as to why humans and animals prefer freedom over coercion. Once we ask the question this way, we can study it.”
Future Science
In the final moments of the episode, Ilian inquires about any future scientific discoveries that Heather is most enthusiastic about. She shares her excitement for the potential uses of neural implants which will aid in manipulating pathways in our brains, leading to enhanced memory, creativity, and intelligence. She also expresses optimism that through gene editing, we would be able to eliminate some neurological illnesses, such as Alzheimer’s Disease.
In closing, Ilian asks: “What general advice do you have for students of neuroscience and psychology?” Heather responds by urging science students to be persistent in chasing their goals and to always be bold and take risks, and says,
“Just keep going, keep going, keep going, and don't let anybody stop you unless it's illegal.”
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: http://shop.thenautiluspress.com
APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"
Bios:
Dr. Heather Berlin is a dual-trained neuroscientist and clinical psychologist, and assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mont Sinai in NY. She explores the neural basis of impulsive and compulsive psychiatric and neurological disorders with the aim of developing novel treatments. She is also interested in the brain basis of consciousness, dynamic unconscious processes, and creativity. Clinically, she specializes in lifespan (child, adolescent, and adult) treatment of anxiety, mood, and impulsive and compulsive disorders (e.g. OCD), blending her neural perspective with cognitive behavioral therapy, mindfulness, and humanistic approaches. You can visit her website at https://www.heatherberlin.com/
Ilian Daskalov is a senior undergraduate student at University of California, Irvine where he studies Cognitive Science. He holds an associate degree with honors from San Diego Mesa College. His research interests include sleep, psychedelics, and artificial intelligence. He is passionate about communicating science and promoting critical thinking.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks.
Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting.
He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.
Friday Sep 25, 2020
Friday Sep 25, 2020
"The only way we get certainty or stability in the world is to start from what we know, and gradually move to what we don't know."
- Bernard Baars, PhD, originator of the Global Workspace Theory, a theory of cognitive architecture and consciousness.
Episode 13: "Thinking About Animal Consciousness"
The question of whether some non-human animals are capable of awareness has vexed psychologists, neuroscientists, and philosophers of mind for many decades. In the final episode of Season One of The Podcast On Consciousness, Bernard Baars and David Edelman attempt to demystify animal consciousness. They suggest a comparative framework for investigating subjectivity that considers the human case as a benchmark, but at the same time emphasizes a kind of behavioral output as a form of report, akin to the language-based reports used in studies of human consciousness.
Talking Points:
0:04 – Intro
1:38 – Where in the brain is consciousness located?
7:44 – Consciousness in non-mammalian animals
11:00 – The visual cortex
17:15 – How is consciousness defined?
25:01 - Behaviors as markers for subjectivity
30:02 –Sensory consciousness and higher order self-awareness
34:14 – Do cephalopods belong to the big C-club?
40:22 – The awareness of the self
Bios:
David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Department of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks.
Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting.
He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.
Get a 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars
APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"
#podbean #podcast #spotify #itunes #podcasting #podcastlife #stitcher #podcasts #applepodcasts #googleplay #youtube #podcasters #podcaster #soundcloud #podcastshow #newpodcast #googlepodcasts #applepodcast #iheartradio #spotifypodcast #itunespodcast #podcastmovement #entertainment #castbox #radio #subscribe #listen #neuroscience #psychology #brain #globalworkspace #gwt #bernardbaars #davidedelman #markmitton #davidedelman #bernardbaars #brainscience #sciencepodcast #science
Tuesday Jun 30, 2020
Tuesday Jun 30, 2020
"Episodic memory involves conscious experiences being encoded. Same goes for semantic and autobiographical memories. All varieties of memories come in through conscious moments of recall. So, I think that consciousness is the means by which any kinds of memories are established."
- Bernard Baars, PhD, originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences, and a recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society.
EPISODE 11: Roundtable Part Four "Brain Regions and Neural Functions Critical to Conscious States"
In the final episode of their roundtable talks, originator of Global Workspace Theory Bernard Baars, neuroscientist David Edelman, and developmental neuropsychiatrist Dr. Jay Giedd conclude their discussion by analyzing the brain areas which are critical for higher brain function, neuroimaging techniques associated with detecting conscious experiences, and the possible existence of consciousness in non-mammalian animals.
Get your 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars
APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"
Talking Points
00:03 – Introduction by David Edelman
02:09 – The Role of Thalamus and Cortex in Higher Brain Processing
08:08 – Is Memory Fundamental to Consciousness
12:14 – Brain Variations Between Mammals and Other Animals
16:22 – Differences Between Sleep and Awake States in the Human Brain
Summary of the Conversation
In this absorbing episode of ‘On Consciousness,’ Bernard Baars, David Edelman, and developmental neuropsychiatrist Dr. Jay Giedd initiate the conversation by considering the functional aspects of the brain that are believed to be absolutely critical to consciousness.
Bernie, Jay, and David ponder the role of cortex and thalamus in higher brain function, including conscious processing. Bernie underlines the problem of considering the linkage between thalamus and cortex as merely a simple feedback loop. From an engineering perspective, this sort of circuit could not possibly work as such an arrangement would inevitably, as Bernie puts it, lead to effective failure of the thalamocortical circuit. Instead, it seems to be the case that the cortex functions in a state of near-criticality. As Jay indicates, this implies that the cortex is always at a tipping point, i.e., close to a phase transition and “always ready to be influenced.”
Elucidating the neurobiology of consciousness has been somewhat hindered by technical hurdles. But, despite the spatial and temporal limitations of current neurophysiological and imaging technologies, David observes that certain aspects of brain anatomy—including cortex and thalamus—have been established as the sine qua non of conscious experience in mammals. In an optimistic vein, Jay offers that new combinations of existing techniques (such as MEG, EEG, and fMRI) may soon yield a much clearer picture.
Next, Edelman, Baars, and Giedd consider the idea that certain higher neural processes are central to consciousness, even though those processes may often function independently of any state of awareness. Memory, which seems to be fundamental to conscious experience, is one such process. While memory and recall figure prominently in conscious experience, it’s certainly the case that some varieties of memory are regularly engaged during non-conscious states and behaviors.
The trio concludes the conversation by reflecting on the prospect of consciousness as a biological phenomenon. Additionally, they consider the possibility of consciousness in animals distant from the mammalian line and as it is the case of the octopus, a creature separated from the vertebrate radiation by more than half a billion years. The octopus as a possible test case for consciousness beyond the realm of vertebrates is particularly tantalizing, given that, unlike mammals, it has neither a cerebral cortex nor a thalamus.
Bios
Dr. Jay Giedd
Chair of child psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital-San Diego and director of child and adolescent psychiatry, Dr. Giedd is also a professor of psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and professor in the Dept of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Dr. Giedd was chief of the Section on Brain Imaging, Child Psychiatry Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). His widely published research and expertise evaluates how the child's brain develops in health and illness, the factors that influence development and how to optimize treatments to take advantage of the child's changing brain. Jay and his award winning work were featured in the PBS 2 part series "Brains on Trial" hosted by Alan Alda.
David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Dept of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks.
Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting.
He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.
*Watch Episode 11 on Our YouTube Channel!
#podbean #podcast #spotify #itunes #podcasting #podcastlife #stitcher #podcasts #applepodcasts #googleplay #youtube #podcasters #podcaster #soundcloud #podcastshow #newpodcast #googlepodcasts #applepodcast #iheartradio #spotifypodcast #itunespodcast #podcastmovement #entertainment #castbox #radio #subscribe #listen #neuroscience #psychology #brain #globalworkspace #gwt #bernardbaars #davidedelman #jaygiedd #brainscience #sciencepodcast #science
Monday May 18, 2020
Monday May 18, 2020
"You highlighted the difference that makes a difference. Тhis is not only a neat catchphrase, but there's also something very deep about it. And sleep, in fact, is a really interesting aspect of behavior, that maybe gives us a window on the difference between conscious and non-conscious processes in the brain, because there is a distinct difference and it is recordable."
- David Edelman, PhD, A neuroscientist and a Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College
EPISODE 9: Roundtable Part Two - What is the Difference That Makes a Difference?
In a continuation from their previous conversation, Neuroscientist David Edelman and Developmental Neuropsychiatrist Jay Giedd, Professor of Psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine and Director of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital are joined by Bernard Baars, the originator of the global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. In this contemplative conversation the trio touches on subjects involving how consciousness gets defined, the developing process of an adolescent human brain, and the role that sensory organs play in an individual's perception of reality.
Get your 40% Discount for your copy of Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory
GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars
APPLY DISCOUNT CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"
Talking Points
0:00 – Intro by David Edelman.
2:00 – David Edelman welcomes Bernard Baars to the conversation.
2:31 – Edelman initiates the discussion by revealing what consciousness means to him and how it could be reduced to main aspects (An idea which is based on his father’s views).
6:22 – Baars points out that the exploration of consciousness is an idea that has been an inevitable part of humanity and a necessary trait.
9:40 – Edelman and Baars discuss the importance of being able to socially broadcast your model of the world as part of the conscious experience.
13:17 - Giedd and Edelman discuss whether having some type of social skills is a requirement for consciousness or if it is instead a product of it.
19:12 – Jay makes a connection between social skills and the development of the cortex, its structure, and how important it appears to be for the emergence of consciousness
22:12 – The development and integration of neuronal connections in the brain, responsible for essential bodily functions such as heart rate and breathing.
24:35 – Is consciousness a constant or are there variations of it?
26:22 – The uniqueness of the olfactory system and its close interconnectedness to the emotional system.
30:31 – The sensation of smell and the human brain’s inability to recreate a memory of smell, the way it would for a visual image
32:11 – Baars steers the conversation towards visual perceptional differences.
34:55 – Jay Giedd discusses some of the rare conditions in humans which allow for the richer perception of external stimuli
Summary of the Conversation
Bernard Baars has often referred to consciousness as the difference that makes a difference. When we reflect on our everyday experience versus the absence of anything attended to or recalled, as is the case during a deep, dreamless sleep or under general anesthesia — that difference which distinguishes conscious experience from the rest of our mental lives becomes quite obvious.But, how would we characterize that difference?What is it about a particular animal’s makeup — its nervous and sensory systems, its behavior, its social interactions — that singles out that animal as truly conscious?
In this episode of ‘On Consciousness’, Baars, Edelman, and Giedd explore these questions in a thought-provoking discussion, starting with their perspectives on the nature of consciousness. To begin with, David posits a relatively straightforward definition of consciousness: namely, the weaving together of different sensory threads into a coherent unified percept and the persistence of that percept in memory. Bernie then offers that humans have studied consciousness for millennia, and out of that long rumination has come the realization that teaching and learning — the process of communicating and internalizing information — is an interactive exchange of conscious thought.
This social domain of conscious experience could therefore be subsumed within an operational definition of awareness — at least in the human case. As David points out (and Jay amplifies) Bernie’s emphasis on the kind of social interchange of conscious percepts that occurs between humans doesn't take into account the long history of life on earth and in particular the many animals with complex brains and elaborate sensory faculties that have preceded us.
Human sociality is a recent evolutionary innovation, and it seems clear that some form of consciousness existed long before we came along. And, while Bernard emphasizes the idea that human sociality accommodates our conscious experience, Jay flips this on its head, suggesting instead that consciousness may be what ultimately affords our particular social lives as humans.
Moreover, for many non-human animals, survival and reproduction are contingent on social skills — but this was true long before humans walked the earth. In any case, as Jay points out, we should be able to infer whether an animal has the capacity to convey its interpretation of reality to others from the structure and function of its nervous system. Such an inference would be strongly suggestive of a rich conscious life.
Next, the conversation focuses on the role of certain brain structures and sensory faculties in defining and elaborating conscious experience. In the case of human development, we can track the emergence of different perceptual and cognitive capacities, as well as the elaboration of underlying brain areas and circuitry, from infancy well into adulthood. Thus, as Jay suggests, we could in principle observe as the capacity to weave together sensory percepts into a neural representation emerges and is elaborated in the brain of a young child. In this regard, Jay asks two questions:
1) Can consciousness be considered as being on a ‘sliding scale’ during development?
2) Would we expect developing humans to get better at weaving together conscious percepts as they grow older?
With regard to evolution, radical distinctions between our sensory organs and those of animals quite distant from our phylogenetic line suggest that the varieties of conscious experience must be legion among animals. Even among humans, differences in sensory equipment must necessarily give rise to differences in conscious experience. Individuals with a condition known as Tetrachromacy — a genetic mutation that is expressed as an extra photopigment — can perceive finer gradations in the spectrum of visible light than the rest of us and are therefore capable of making color distinctions we would certainly miss.
The upshot of this lively exchange is that there is, indeed, a difference that makes a difference at the core of conscious experience, and it can be both observed in developing humans and inferred from the rich evolutionary history of complex life on earth. Though Bernie, Jay, and David barely scratch the surface of this tantalizing difference here, they provide listeners with ample armamentarium to forge ahead and continue the intellectual journey on their own.
BIOS
Dr. Jay Giedd
Chair of child psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital-San Diego and director of child and adolescent psychiatry, Dr. Giedd is also a professor of psychiatry at UCSD School of Medicine, and professor in the Dept of Population, Family and Reproductive Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Dr. Giedd was chief of the Section on Brain Imaging, Child Psychiatry Branch of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). His widely published research and expertise evaluates how the child's brain develops in health and illness, the factors that influence development and how to optimize treatments to take advantage of the child's changing brain. Jay and his award winning work were featured in the PBS 2 part series "Brains on Trial" hosted by Alan Alda.
David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Dept of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017.
He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Bernard Baars is best known as the originator of global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie is a former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, and Editor in Chief of the Society for MindBrain Sciences. He is author of many scientific papers, articles, essays, chapters, and acclaimed books and textbooks.
Bernie is the recipient of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting.
He teaches science. It keeps him out of trouble.
*Watch Episode 9 on Our YouTube Channel!
#podbean #podcast #spotify #itunes #podcasting #podcastlife #stitcher #podcasts #applepodcasts #googleplay #youtube #podcasters #podcaster #soundcloud #podcastshow #newpodcast #googlepodcasts #applepodcast #iheartradio #spotifypodcast #itunespodcast #podcastmovement #entertainment #castbox #radio #subscribe #listen #neuroscience #psychology #brain #globalworkspace #gwt #bernardbaars #davidedelman #jaygiedd #brainscience #sciencepodcast #science
Thursday Apr 16, 2020
Thursday Apr 16, 2020
In this uplifting episode recorded at La Jolla landmark D.G. Wills Books, neuroscientists Bernie Baars & David Edelman unpack the nature of consciousness — the ineffable sense of ‘aboutness’ each one of us experiences that encompasses features of the outside world, your own thoughts, recollections, and emotions, all of which mysteriously — yet inevitably — arise from the coordinated firing of neurons in the cerebral cortex and other regions of the brain.
David reads from Bernie's new book, “On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory."
Bernie and David begin by considering the problem of subjectivity — in particular, the tortuous twenty-five centuries-long struggle to place it within a scientific framework and at the same time reconcile such an endeavor with everyday first-hand descriptions of human experience. They conclude that a major roadblock has been the tendency to set aside or even actively dismiss subjective descriptions in the quest to tease out some kind of objective truth about the nature of conscious experience.
To underscore the idea that we can, in some sense, square the objective, physical attributes of the world with their subjective representation in the brain, Bernie and David mull over the perception of color as one example of a subjective transform of an objective phenomenon—namely, the differences in wavelengths of light. Given that the human visual system filters certain physical properties of light (as humans, we can’t perceive light wavelengths less than 380nm or greater than 740nm, nor can we perceive polarized light), our conscious perception of the visual world must necessarily be subjective in nature and, considering our individual differences (e.g., how we’re each uniquely embodied), entirely unique to, and privileged for, each of us.
Bernie and David then move on to ethical and evolutionary considerations inspired by attempts to come to grips with the existence and nature of consciousness in non-human animals. Given the ancient moral and ethical underpinnings of human culture, they suggest that the evolutionary story of consciousness must necessarily be linked to considerations of how we treat non-human animals.
Based on neuroanatomical, neurophysiological, and behavioral similarities between mammals and birds, it seems likely that a large number of animals are capable of conscious experience. In fact, the complex nervous systems and sophisticated behavioral repertoires of some animals quite distant from the vertebrate line (i.e., the octopus) suggest that a faculty for consciousness may well be quite ancient and extend to at least a few branches of complex life. Accordingly, Bernie and David reinforce the ethical dilemma that non-human consciousness poses.
How do we reconcile our treatment of non-human animals with the idea that, like us, many of these beings are capable of feeling pain and experiencing a broad palette of emotions?
To conclude the discussion, Bernie and David ponder the critical role of memory in consciousness and consider the problem of limited capacity – the idea that your nervous system can only handle so much information and processing tasks at once. In regard to memory, Bernie points to the importance of the cerebral cortex—the ‘central store’ for conscious contents—for engendering states of awareness in humans and non-human mammals.
He further notes that conscious contents are always internally consistent, despite the fact that very different—and quite often inconsistent—streams of information may be impinging on your senses all at once. In other words, the brain builds an internally consistent story about the world—even if certain strands of that story don’t make sense from an external perspective. Why is this the case?
Regarding limited capacity, Bernie suggests that it is biologically paradoxical. For example, the selective awareness that comes with limited capacity can sometimes result in people walking into traffic while talking on their cell phones. Why doesn’t the spotlight of awareness extend beyond the telephone conversation to include an oncoming truck?
The discussion ends with a wonderful Q & A session, thanks to an engaged and brilliant audience.
*Special Thanks to Dennis Wills, owner of D.G. Wills Books in La Jolla, CA.
Bios
Bernard J. Baars: A former Senior Fellow in Theoretical Neurobiology at The Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA, Bernie is best known as the originator of the global workspace theory and global workspace dynamics, a theory of human cognitive architecture, the cortex and consciousness. Bernie's many acclaimed books include A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness; The Cognitive Revolution in Psychology; In the Theater of Consciousness: The Workspace of the Mind; Fundamentals of Cognitive Neuroscience. Winner of the 2019 Hermann von Helmholtz Life Contribution Award by the International Neural Network Society, which recognizes work in perception proven to be paradigm changing and long-lasting. His new acclaimed book: On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory. BernardBaars.com
David Edelman, PhD: A neuroscientist and currently Visiting Scholar in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College, David has taught neuroscience at the University of San Diego and UCSD. He was Professor of Neuroscience at Bennington College until 2014 and visiting professor in the Dept of Psychology, CUNY Brooklyn College from 2015-2017. He has conducted research in a wide range of areas, including mechanisms of gene regulation, the relationship between mitochondrial transport and brain activity, and visual perception in the octopus. A longstanding interest in the neural basis of consciousness led him to consider the importance—and challenge—of disseminating a more global view of brain function to a broad audience.
Episode 7 Talking Points | 1 hour 30 minutes
By Ilian Daskalov
0:05 – Neuroscientist David Edelman introduces Bernard J. Baars, himself, their work, how they met in 2005 at The Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla, CA. David unpacks a brief history of the modern science of consciousness studies, and how they began collaborating and developing their research and body of work in their diverse fields.
1:29 - Edelman reads excerpts from Baars’ new book “On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity – Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory.”
7:12 – Edelman and Baars initiate the conversation between the two by discussing observational objectivity and the uniqueness of being a conscious individual self.
14:08 – What are some ways for scientists to study the nature of subjectivity?
17:24– How the spectrum of visible colors is perceived and how hues are labeled based on variables such as gender and culture.
23:50 – The importance of considering embodiment, or how the body is put together as a whole, when studying the conscious experiences in humans and animals.
30:00 – The evolution of consciousness in non-human animals, and the ethics and morals of treating other sentient beings in humane ways.
41:42 – How memory is related to consciousness and the overall structural complexity of the human brain.
45:40 – The limited capacity of human attention and the perceptual unity that the brain weaves from input information.
54:08 – Q & A with the audience.
55:17 – The imperfections and amendable properties of human memory, as well as William James’ idea about “the feeling of knowing.”
1:03:48 – The mind-body connection... and does it exist?
1:06:53 – Is competency equal to comprehension – can cells and machines be considered conscious?
1:12:26 – David Edelman gives a summary of the three of the main theories of consciousness – Global Workspaces Theory, Integrated Information Theory, and Dynamic Core.
In terms of selectionism, where does the cortex come in? And particularly the conscious aspects of cortex at any given moment?
1:21:55 – Bernie explains what Global Workspace Theory is, its origin, and what makes it more biologically plausible in comparison to its rival theories.
Special Podcast VIP 40% Discount for Bernie Baars' acclaimed new book, "On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory" - GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars
APPLY CODE AT CHECKOUT: "PODCASTVIP"
Watch our Video Podcast Episodes: https://youtu.be/tFRJCPL_Xm8
Thursday Apr 16, 2020
Thursday Apr 16, 2020
Why are we conscious? Is cortex the organ of mind? Throughout human history, people have perceived the conscious brain as the great nexus of human life, of social relationships, of their personal identities and histories, in encounters with new challenges. In Episode #5 of the podcast On Consciousness, Bernard Baars, originator of GWT, talks with neuroscientists David Edelman and Jay Giedd, roboticist Jeff Krichmar, magician Mark Mitton, and editor Natalie Geld about our growing understanding of the many relationships between the structure and functions of the brain and our own private experiences.
Discover the conscious brain.
Consciousness under its many labels and manifestations is widely seen to be one of the core mysteries of life. A great many therapeutic approaches can be viewed in a global workspace framework, including traditional psychodynamics and depth psychology, but also cognitive behavioral techniques, and, indeed, many other kinds of carefully studied human functions. Making progress in understanding consciousness therefore has an endless number of implications - philosophical, metaphysical, scientific, medical, clinical, and practical.
"Baars' Global Workspace Theory is practical and elegant, addressing both conscious and unconscious activity. If anyone thinks there is a "hard problem" in this field, they need to read On Consciousness before they make that assumption." ~Stanley Krippner, PhD, Professor of Psychology, Saybrook University.
Cognitive Neurobiologist and originator of GWT Bernard J.Baars, Author of "ON CONSCIOUSNESS: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory"
Neuroscientist David Edelman, PhD, Visiting Scholar, Dept of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Dartmouth College
Neuroscientist Dr. Jay Giedd, Director of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, Rady Children's Hospital; Professor of Psychiatry, UCSD School of Medicine
Neuroscientist & Roboticist Jeffrey Krichmar, PHD, UC Irvine
Professional Magician Mark Mitton
Editor of "ON CONSCIOUSNESS" Natalie Geld, CEO & Founder, MedNeuro, Inc.
Special Podcast VIP 40% Discount for Bernie Baars' new book, "On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory" - GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars
APPLY CODE AT CHECKOUT: PODCASTVIP
Video Podcast of Episode #5 - Part Four of NATURALIZING CONSCIOUSNESS: A Talk with Psychobiologist and Originator of Global Workspace Theory, Bernard Baars exploring conscious and unconscious brain events.
Saturday Feb 15, 2020
Saturday Feb 15, 2020
The engine of evolution is geared to overproduce and selectively eliminate. How do biological systems confront, adapt, and survive an ever-changing world?
This is the central question that defined Charles Darwin’s scientific journey. In Episode #4 of NATURALIZING CONSCIOUSNESS - the premiere event for the new podcast "On Consciousness with Bernard Baars" - neuroscientists Bernard Baars, David Edelman, Jay Giedd, Jeff Krichmar, professional magician Mark Mitton, and editor Natalie Geld unpack the Theory of Neuronal Group Selection (TNGS) and make the case that this theory lays out tractable biological ‘first principles’ for building a brain that learns, remembers, and experiences.
160 years after On the Origin of Species, Natural Selection provides a framework for understanding adaptation at many different scales of biological organization, from protein translation (e.g., ribosomes acting as mRNA message ‘filters’ which determine final protein products), to the immune response (i.e., ‘recognition’ of foreign agents or pathogens by antibodies), to organismal development (e.g., morphogenesis; embryogenesis, etc.), to the origin of species and dynamics of vast ecologies (e.g., rainforest canopies, grasslands, island biogeography, etc.).
Could the very same Darwinian principles help explain how complex nervous systems adapt? It seems like a strange thought.
BUT MORE THAN FORTY YEARS AGO, GERALD EDELMAN PROPOSED NEURAL DARWINISM, or the Theory of Neuronal Group Selection (TNGS), to account for the development and function of the human brain. Neural Darwinism proposes that the functional circuitry of the brain is determined by selective forces operating during development and throughout the life of an organism. It provides a robust biological framework for understanding brain function, including consciousness--the most complex and mysterious of all brain processes. In a nearly six decade long career, Gerald M. Edelman’s research spanned diverse areas of biological science, including immunology, developmental biology, and neuroscience. The common thread running through all of Dr. Edelman’s pursuits was an enduring interest in the relationship between biology and human experience. Neural Darwinism represents the culmination of his efforts to reconcile the two.
SIMILARLY, COGNITIVE PSYCHOLOGIST BERNARD BAARS HAS SOUGHT TO LINK FUNDAMENTAL BRAIN PROCESSES and conscious human experience. His Global Workspace Theory and Edelman’s Neural Darwinism naturally complement one another. Both theories propose that the conscious brain supports numerous unconscious processes which together yield a single, coherent stream of experiences.
Through recent neuroscientific advances, we have begun to lift the veil of mystery surrounding consciousness. In this open-minded discussion, our roundtable experts explore Neural Darwinism and Global Workspace in the context of these advances and make the case that together, these complementary theories provide a rich biological roadmap of subjective experience.
COGNITIVE NEUROBIOLOGIST BERNARD J. BAARS, Author of "ON CONSCIOUSNESS: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory"
NEUROSCIENTIST DAVID EDELMAN, PHD, Visiting Scholar, Dept of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Dartmouth College
NEUROSCIENTIST DR. JAY GIEDD, Director of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, Rady Children's Hospital; Professor of Psychiatry, UCSD School of Medicine
NEUROSCIENTIST & ROBOTICIST JEFFREY KRICHMAR, PHD, UC Irvine
PROFESSIONAL MAGICIAN MARK MITTON
EDITOR OF "ON CONSCIOUSNESS" NATALIE GELD, CEO & Founder, MedNeuro, Inc.
Special Podcast VIP 40% Discount for Bernie Baars' new book, "On Consciousness: Science & Subjectivity - Updated Works on Global Workspace Theory" - GO TO: https://shop.thenautiluspress.com/collections/baars
APPLY CODE AT CHECKOUT: PODCASTVIP
Video Podcast of Episode #4 - Part Three of NATURALIZING CONSCIOUSNESS: Roundtable on Neural Darwinism and Global Workspace Theory